How Can Teachers and Trainers Build Rapport With Students?

Hi! My name is Jatinder, founder of digital rapport. Today, we’re gonna have a really cool interview with third generation Bruce Lee student. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail because I'll get him to do the introductions. So Lak, it’s an honor to meet you today. 

It's a pleasure. 

And just yes. Oh! Just to the viewers, if you like to tell a bit about yourself. 

Yeah well! I'll start with an introduction. My name is Lak Loi, a third generation instructor in Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, his martial art and philosophy. In Cantonese, it stands for where the intercepting fist, upward together with a program based on and inspired by Bruce Lee called “Marshall Manpower”. It's a 9 stage self-mastery black belt program.

One of the whole reasons for doing digital rapport is to educate people as to what rapport is, how it works, and then how we can basically use that not just offline but also online. So, I suppose the first thing is: What is a rapport to you, and how do you use it in what you do? 

Ultimately for me, rapport is to create trust and confidence between you and the person that you communicate with. And that happens in the bunch of different ways. And ultimately, is through the art of honestly expressing yourself. 

With yourself, you have your martial art classes that you teach in Central London with your students. I remember the first time I met with you, it was quite interesting because you embraced me straight away. It was like, came up to you, you shook hands… You didn't shake, you just hugged me. And for me that was kind of like: Wow! It was almost like straight away you've opened up to me, which for me was a case of like: ‘This guy doesn't even know me and you just open up’. And I saw you do that with all your students and everyone who were coming. Why do you do that, how does that come about? Or what were the thoughts behind that?

I think one of the key things is: I don't go and greet somebody with the intention of using the awe and philosophy of rapport building to manipulate somebody's behavior. For me, it's an honest self expression of welcoming somebody. So, when a new student comes into the group and wants to try a class, I give them a welcome. This is what I'll call an open gesture. So, I use my non-verbal communication skills in order to welcome them in. And a hug is a way of communicating a whole plethora of emotions, feelings and thoughts without using a single word and this is the power of a hug. But the good thing about a hug is, when you give a hug you get one back. It's also a healing mechanism as well, and makes people feel good. 

From a very young age, a child is hugged and caressed and cared for by the parents and in particular the mother, and that same emotion and that same physiology and the interaction will work against anybody else. But to me,when when I do welcome a student, it's just a natural way I am and the more love I give, the more I show that I care about somebody, the more I get back. It's a reciprocal thing. 

So, I don't do it with an expectation of getting something back, it's just the way I am and how I want to be. 

If you were to break that down into its, kind of components, as to how you actually create instant rapport with people, what would you say that is? If you were to break it down further just so that we could get to the core of what rapport is and how it works.

Well, if rapport is about building trust and confidence, and trust and confidence is something that especially with the Marshal mindset, it's something that has to be earned. You don't have it there instantly, because somebody might not know you especially when you got a new prospective student. So, the idea is to earn that respect and that happens through being professional. But also being sincere, having honesty and integrity about what you're doing. If you were to break down the mechanics of that, you could look at the size of that; and the science that we would say well you know in terms of communication which is the means to build rapport. 

Communication is built of the verbal and the non-verbal aspects. And as part of the verbal aspects which people talk about or recognized as being the core parts of the communication - the actual word part of the communication, is only about seven percent of the overall communication. The rest of it is the other verbal components and more importantly the non-verbal components which account and amount to over seventy percent of the overall communication. 

So, what are we talking about? Well, rapport is built by the following key attributes, and to me the first and foremost is having the right physiology. So, this is how you carry your body, you know you could if somebody comes into your martial art school, into the dojo. You greet them with a closed structure, or off to the side now, or very standoffish, or you greet them like this. Then you're going to push them away because, this physiology communicates the fact that you're saying to them; Stay away! So straight away the physiology is not congruent with the kind of message that you're trying to create. So, the idea would be then to carry yourself and carry your physiology in a way that you would be embracing. So gestures, where I'm pulling you in, opening you, giving you a hug. I'm saying welcome with a big hug, with a lot of love and warmth. This is cool, calm and a friendly environment for you to come in and learn. For me to help develop you so that you can be a better martial artist and you can be better human being. So, the physiology part is really important.

Then when you start looking at the actual, or the verbal part of it, the verbal part of it consists of two key things: Firstly, is using the right words. And quite often when a person trying to communicate a message, if you use the wrong words will convey wrong message. 

So, it's really important that you use the right terminology, the right words that are fitting to the message. If you were to read my mind, you could understand what I'm saying. But the fact that I have to think, and then translate, and verbalize what I'm saying. If I don't use the right words then the message that I'm trying to convey to you may be misinterpreted by the recipient. And if that happens, then all of a sudden I'm going to break rapport. Because it's misunderstandings and inefficiencies in that communication so that needs to be aligned. 

Then the most important thing and this is the one aspect of communication that's really undervalued is tonality. And tonality is your pitch, and the timber, and the quality of your voice. And these attributes of your voice, if I talk in a very aggressive manner then you will construe that I don't want you in my space, I don't want you my school, I want you to go away you, may get frightened. Or I may use a nice, calm and friendly tonality, which is my natural state. And if I do, if I communicate in that way, then you'll be more inviting and your feel more comfortable and more relaxed. And remember, when I do get a new student coming to the dojo, more than likely the new students anxious and nervous. He's in a new environment, he's going to learn something that's combative. But also, you've got a physical cultivation. You got mental cultivation, which is something that he hasn't done before there's a bunch of people in the room that that person's never met before. There’s a natural anxiety about joining a new club; Will I operate in it? Will I get it? Will I understand the movement? Will I get on with my teacher? And so on. 

So, the communication is there to help make that person and make that student feel comfortable. And rapport is our end objective, which is to build confidence and trust. If I am to help enrich this person, this person is going to look at me to help guide them to be appointed to their own truth. And then they must trust me and they must have confidence in what I am about to deploy as part of my teachings.

Yeah! Yeah! That’s interesting. So, if you would to them expand that further because, when you're teaching in your class you know just one student as multiple students. You have to then maintain that rapport across 20 - 30 students at one time.

That’s right.

How does that dynamic work? What do you look for? What kind of things allow you to keep that under control as such, you know work with that and at the same time connect with all of them at the same time?

Running group classes is an art and in the art form is such that, when you interact with people… When you're in the service sector in particularly, teaching in such an environment like a martial art school, I personally feel that you have to have an inherent responsibility and care or duty of care to get the best out of each person. And that happens through understanding each person personally to a certain degree. Now some people are a bit more closed and some people are a bit more open. So, the open people you'll know a bit more… a lot more about, whereas the close people you know a little bit less on about. But you will appreciate how they operate, and their modus operandi, and you can respect to their boundaries. Likewise with an open person, they'll give you more, and may also expect more in turn, because it's more of an open communication there. And the idea is with a high energy person or more open person you can afford to be more open, and more closed person, private person you can afford to depart and deploy information that is bit more succinct and more straight to the point rather than get more involved in the interpersonal aspect.

You must honor that in order to honor the person. And each person is different but ultimately each person is in a different place in their life, and each student in the martial arts class is coming from a different place, they're all looking for something different. And that something different you can only identify if you actually care about their well-being, and adding value to their lives to help enrich them. And when you look at it from that standpoint, what happens is something quite magical because you get inside. You don't go into it thinking: Well, so-and-so need this help, and so-and-so needs that help. When you're in that space, you feel the energy, you have a certain intuition, almost a full of what the class needs as a collective and what may be a specific group, or an individual may need. And the class... they're all specified up in advances, session planning, so we go in there, everything I always say is: There's a madness to the method, and a method to the madness. You know it may not always make sense, but at the end, it all comes together and it always makes sense. It has to be having absolute clarity to the student, so if it makes sense and it works, then you should do it. 

So, when you're in that space, the idea is in a class sometimes I might have a session planned; What I'm going to cover in a specific class or a seminar, but the students might not be in that mind space at that given moment in time. So, that session plan may no longer be appropriate, I have to respond like an icon, adapt to what they need in order to give them the best teachings they can. So, they are in the space that they came in there to commit to, get into. 

That space is a space to lift each and every person and that's only going to happen if I am in tune to the way each student is in the class. And when I'm doing that, I'm reading physiology, I'm listening to their tonality, I'm listening to the words that coming out of their mouth, and I am on point on their communication. But ultimately, when I have rapport, I have confidence and trust in each and remember each and every member of the class. Then I can help them a lot more easily, if I don't have that, then whatever I do will never work. 

So, it sounds like that, you're getting to know them on an individual basis on level. So, the individual, their need, what they require for this growth. And then, because you know that, in that environment you're able to see the individual because obviously they're kind of in front of you as you're teaching. But then, you see the kind of harmony between them and all the other students. And as a collective, then you start to look at what the collective needs. 

All right okay. Absolutely there is collectiveness, and there is individual, and they’re coexisting in the same space because it's a group environment. But every once in a while, you'll get somebody that's isolated for some reason, and I can feel it. I can see what's going on. I can read the physiology. I can read the communication and the message that they are sending out through their behavior. And that's what I would classify as an opportunity for me to help them. 

Ultimately, martial art is about self-actualization. To be the best you can be and it's my job and my responsibility to find a way to do that with each and every student. On the whole, general class instruction helps lift everybody. But they are cases where you have to give specific instruction and specific coaching to individuals in order to get the best out of them, or get them into better and more resourceful state in that one hour… One and a half hours that you've got to work with them or work together with them.

If we then take that a little bit further into the kind of online digital Sofia now right, so unlike a kind of one-to-one basis they can't meet you, interact with them, you get their needs, find out what they're all about. So, how are you then translating that online? What are you doing to build rapport with people in the digital era as to say, how to find out their needs and all that kind of stuff to supply them with what they want? 

I know what my students want. When I first enroll a student, or when I first meet each student, I have a one-on-one sit down with each and every person to elicit why that individual is engaging in martial art. What? How is it is part of their journey of life, that I can help serve them in the best way possible. Once I know that, then I know how I can serve them and how I can get the best out of that person. And the rest is really then responding to how the classes are planned and how I can instruct the individual, coach individual throughout each session. 

In terms of reflecting that in the digital world, the way I do that is by providing learning materials that help make their journey as easy as possible. So knowledge is power. But I also believe that if knowledge is power then don't give it away indiscriminately. So, that knowledge is deported to my students in a private forum and a member’s only area. And as part of that, I provide information and knowledge to help enrich and help my students develop and work on their martial arts practice in their own spare time and space. That way, they can continue working on the material that we cover in class and it also gives them a reference point. So education, value, knowledge, and learnings that we cover in class is… I think a must, so we try and do that as much as possible. 

On top of that, another thing that I do regularly is inspire and empower. Now I'm an avid Bruce Lee fan which is the reason I got into Jeet Kune Do in the first place. And as popped out, I have been wowed and continued inspired and motivated by Bruce Lee's philosophies, and the philosophies that he was inspired by. Very often, I will share those philosophies in snippets and philosophies and quotes and I post them on a blog. And these blogs you know, I don't over-blog to over-burden and overpower and discombobulated my followers. But more to give them a dripfeed of inspiration every couple of weeks or so, just so that it gives them that boost that they need. And I get constant feedback that the students love the blogs that are post. I am trying to maintain a standard of high quality blogposts, the writings that I do, the quotes that I put out there, the material that I source and share with my students is of a high caliber and fitting with my overall message of self-actualizing through the Marshall Journey. 

And so it comes back to that point of understanding your customer, understanding your students and then being able to serve their needs with the knowledge and content may require through blogging, through videos, social media. 

That's right. 

Okay interesting. 

In order to help support my student’s development, we as part of the school, also putting together our online training materials as well, so that they will be able to learn and supplement their own training in their space. We are in the process of putting together some supplemental training videos that will be provided as part of that, so home study courses effectively. We'll put together materials that people can stream, DVDs from learnings that have been put together by people, other instructors within my circle that can help provide these teachings as well. So, that the students can continue their development in their own space and try things, and exercises, and drills in their own time and space with their own family and friends when they're outside of class, to continue their evolution and their progress in their own development. that's something that's quite key. 

One of the other aspects of this is: We're also putting together something called Marshall word or a Marshal workout of the day. And the idea of that is to… A lot of my students come over to sense a seafood, what can I do in my own time and space in order to continue my martial arts development? How can I be a better martial artist? Give me some homework. And quite often, I do this, I said: All right! I want you to go away and do this; I want you to go and work on this; I want you to go and do this or the other. And I've been getting this constantly, and I've been teaching for almost ten years now and so I decided that I was going to put together a regular Marshall workout of the day. So students can go away and do a workout in their own time and space every single day to continue their development. Something that's carefully thought-out, planned and progressive through the syllabus that we're working with. So they'll have workouts that they can do. And if they want more information in terms of the actual mechanics behind some of the certain techniques and so on, there's a membership site that will go with that as well, so they'll be able to tap into some of the more detailed teachings behind that. And that’s always something that the students can then join up to for a peppercorn free, go in and get access to all these teachings if they can't make class for instance. There's always a value-add, value-add, value-add and how can I continue to support and educate and inspire their journey. 

So, it looks like all the activities that you do I working in synchronicity with each other, because one of the things you said at the beginning was about building that trust with your students. But doing all of this stuff is then social proof and trust in itself, which then inspires more confidence and more legitness, - if that's a word - to what you're all about. 

Yeah! I'm into making up words, so they go. Every single word is man-made, so you know, we're creators here, like creating things. 

Anyways, that's right, okay cool. So let's just go back to you. Like your students while in class and things like that, what kind of things do your students look for in Marshal Art?

Well, each student has a different need or presented as different want. And the most, if I was to categorize them into two separate buckets: one would be Physical Cultivation. This is cultivating the body say for combat, we're prepared to go into battle, and this is cultivating your body to stage over elite fitness. And then, you've got the other side of it which is a Mental Cultivation. This is cultivating your mind and I'll get students that come in and are looking for confidence, self-belief. They're looking to change their being. And ultimately, martial arts is… these two parts are considered two separate sides of a coin, but when you put them together they're part of an indivisible whole, you can't have one without the other. And that ultimately is what kung fu is. 

When people coming in to learn martial arts, what I tell them is that martial art is not just combat or it's not just philosophy, but it's both. And there’s time and space when you need to fit in and out of one or the other or you can be balanced between the two. So as part of that, one thing that I do as well is: In class we tend to cover say eighty percent the physical cultivation aspect, because that's what most students want. 

But then there's the other aspect. Now people do get a sense of a surety and confidence when they know that they are lethal, then they generally don't use them. But that sense of knowing gives them a sense of belief in confidence anyway through motion. But then, you've got the other side where you can actually reprogram and upgrade your software up here, the mental cultivation aspect and that comes to learning the philosophies and being able to see how to apply them into your life. 

And as part of that one of the biggest things that I've been working on is the Marshal Mind power aspect or the Marshal Mind power program and that's been the founding principles for The Master Your Life program, which is the non-belt, self-mastery blackboard program that I’ve put together. And the idea is you add the physical and mental cultivation together to create Kung Fu, which is excellent or expertise in your life through prolonged hard work. 

And the philosophical elements would be one of the courses which is relevant to this interview is called honestly express yourself and the idea is to be able to express yourself with honesty and integrity. Be able to say something even when you disagree with somebody with a level of congruence and ecology with the other person. So that, you can get your point across without the fear of offending, without the fear of not being able to say what you mean, and what you intend. 

So, getting the true intention behind you, a communication… passing the message across without the fear of holding back, creating misunderstanding, or even selling out to your own soul by convoluting your message or subduing your message at all. And that I think is the truth of honestly expressing yourself. And the core is essentially that it’s communicating what is it that you truly mean, what is it your true intention, how is it that I truly mean to help and enrich other people in their journey. And then, given me the honor and the privilege to carry them through that process, and being their pointer to the truth not a giver of the truth but a pointer to that truth for that short space of time that they're with me and that is a true privilege.

So, coming back to that question you've got students that want the physical aspect, they want to go in and come in and hit stuff. And you've got people that are coming in and want to strengthen their mind but ultimately they're getting both. 

When you said like students want to hit stuff or where they want to learn things, would you then say that martial arts itself in a kind of combat situation element is a form of rapport or breaking rapport? 

Martial arts in a combative… in a fight… Martial arts is a dance. So, when you're dancing, and you dancing with let's just say there's two people involved. When you're dancing there’s rapport, so when somebody attacks, you've got a choice you can evade, you can be defensive, you can counter-attack, so you can respond, or you can intercept but that's your choice on how you want to dance. It's like you're tangoing or you doing a cha-cha. When you're moving in response to a person, then you're mirroring that person. And mirroring is one of the concepts of building rapport, so we've got rapport. 

So, we haven't… We've mirrored to some pop by, if I sit here like this, I'm mirroring. 

We both feel comfortable. But I know that I can sit anywhere I like because we were already friends, and we have that rapport. But if it was somebody new, the idea would be can we build that rapport in a fight? You're building a rapport to understand how that person moves. When you understand how that person move, you understand their footwork, you understand their timing, you understand their rhythm. And when you understand rhythm, then you can break the rhythm. When you break the rhythm, that's when you get an advantage; that's when you get ahead of the fight, and what's called stay ahead. And that's when you start orchestrating that dance.

So, understanding rapport from a communication standpoint; from general life, like we're having an interview right now is one thing, but taking report into a fight, is exactly the same. But you're using your physiology; but you can use tonality, you can use {inaudible 01:20}, you can use the screams, screams of war in order to communicate, in order to instill distrust, or fear, or whatever it might be, because the rapport is subliminal, in terms of through movement, through mirroring, matching ,and crossovers for example. But with that, you're trying to get it to a point where you build rapport, then you can break it, in a physical manner. 

Yeah. So, report could be used for good and bad, in a way; right? 

Rapport has to be earned. It can be, in a combative way, the report is there when you're moving around with the person; you're dancing around with the person, but then you're looking at the point where you can break rapport in order to attack that person, or intercept, or incapacitate, or hit that person; right? That's a finite window; okay? But that happens when you're moving around with a person, you understand your fighting measure, you understand the footwork, you understand the timing and the rhythm, and then you break them. But to get that, you understand what their constant–their natural step movement is–what their natural rapport is, and when you build that, you can break it. So, yes it can be used in a negative way from a combative standpoint. 

In an everyday standpoint, where you're building rapport with somebody, rapport takes time and effort to build, but the moment is broken, trust is broken, when Trust is broken, it's very difficult to get it back. 

So, the idea really is, when you're honestly expressing yourself, you must do it with an ecology; that means there's a win-win, so that you and the other person has a win-win situation. So that when you're communicating, you're not offending, but that person's getting something of value out of it, as well I. 

So, there's a fair exchange. It doesn't have to be something that we’re trading, but it's just a fair exchange in our messages; could be even something at our basic level, something intangible. 

So, is that common message is coming across about that trust, about the integrity, about making sure what you're putting out there is honest; right? It's definitely to the core because, like you said, if that trust is broken, the report is gone, and then if there's no report, and there's nothing really.

Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right. And, you know, the message that you're putting out there has to be–you have to have integrity and sincerity about it, and it has to come from a real deep place. For me, martial arts is a journey of enriching others, so that they can self-actualize. But not giving them that process, but being a pointer to their own truth, and helping them travel their own journey, in their own time and space, without pressure. 

In order to do that as well, you have to be a–as well as preaching, you have to be a practitioner yourself. So, I work on myself a lot, both physically and mentally, to ensure that physically, I'm ahead of everybody, and I can go out there and express myself physically in combat, in fitness. So, I always push myself as much as I can; right? So, there's nothing that I can't do–you know–that I teach out there. And–you know–along Bruce’s lines–you know–one hand press ups for example–you know–I cultivated that, so then I could teach it to others. If I can't do it, I can't I can't lead by example. 

So, there was one session–many sessions–but one particular session, I remember where I taught the class how to do a one-hand press up, and half for the class got it, the other half had to scale it down because they didn't have the strength, so they got to cultivate from a more simpler, basic level. But the idea was it gave them a goal; something that I inspired them towards. So, you have to practice what you preach. And that is the true expression that your message is sincere because you are also following your own your own teachings. 

Yeah, yeah I know it definitely. Thanks for sharing that Lax because there's lots of gems in there. Because it's so often when people are just doing stuff for the sake of doing it, they've got no integrity behind them, they've got nothing, but they manage to do things to build that trust, but then sooner or later, it's gonna break; right? So, there's no point in the long run to do that. But if you're actually practicing yourself doing it, again it brings more trust into the situation as well, because people relate to it, they see it, and then trust leads to more rapport I suppose. 

That's right; absolutely. 

That's been brilliant Laks. Thank you very much for that. 

You're welcome. 

I hope you guys got a lot of insights from that, and–you know–keep checking back in, we'll have more interviews for you soon. So, any last words Laks? 

Thanks for watching guys. Visit marshallmanpower.com for– 

And JKD London. 

And JKD London if you'd like to learn Bruce Lee's Martial Arts. And thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. There you go.... Watch out. Watch this space.

Thank you.